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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0009194ardourbugspublic2023-02-08 09:39
ReporterWindsurfer152 Assigned Topaul  
Status assignedResolutionopen 
PlatformDebian GNUOSLinuxOS Version(any)
Product Version7.2 
Summary0009194: Manually edited MIDI cc messages do not retain position
DescriptionWhen entering a value it will sometimes appear to be ignored on playback. In fact the change will take place later than where it was entered. Changing the zoom level shows that the value is no longer where it was placed. Reverting to the initial zoom level confirms this.

It doesn't seem to matter whether snap is on or off, in lock or slide mode, in discrete or linear mode, or what the zoom level is when entering the values.

The issue does NOT occur when values are initially drawn. However once they are moved horizontally the behaviour occurs. This makes accurate use of controllers almost impossible.

Values can be edited using Grab, Draw or Internal Edit mode. The issue seems to be present regardless of which is chosen.
Steps To ReproduceCreate a MIDI region. Make a controller visible and set to "play". Draw in some values. Edit their horizontal position. Note where those values are in relation to the timecode. Zoom in/out. Check position of value events. Behaviour is more obvious when discrete mode is used.
Additional InformationWhile working out how to reproduce the issue I note that when snap is enabled it sometimes seems impossible to actually snap to the grid. Possibly related?

Examples attached. Inputted values are 25, 8, 73, 95
TagsNo tags attached.



2023-01-07 10:34



2023-01-14 21:13

reporter   ~0027185

I'm having this issue, too - In Ardour 7.2 on Windows. I'm hoping to find how to find a reasonable workaround until this is fixed. If you look at my screen shot there are two tracks with CC midi controls. In the lower track the repeated section has edited CC data that remains stable during zoom operations. I'm currently working on the track higher up the screen with the single region of CC data. This will currently degrade with almost any operation - including saving the file, closing Ardour and re-opening it. I'm wondering if the bug is at its worst on duplicated tracks. I have (since I started writing this) and I think the problem might be slightly less bad with tracks made from scratch (rather than duplicated) and notes copied and pasted to the new track. Also I cut the region into two at the tempo change. At this point the section after the tempo change behaved itself after I added some CC data and I eventually got he region before the tempo change to behave by editing the CC data the same distance ahead of where it slipped by during a zoom - since at this stage it was only seeming to slip once. Hopefully there is something useful here to either people wanting to make their CC data behave and/or coders trying to fix the problem.
ardour bug 2023-01-14 200143.png (144,313 bytes)   
ardour bug 2023-01-14 200143.png (144,313 bytes)   


2023-01-24 17:37

administrator   ~0027227

was not able to trivially reproduce this.


2023-01-24 17:41

administrator   ~0027228

if you could attach a session that demonstrates this behavior, that would be helpful.


2023-01-24 18:07

reporter   ~0027231

I have just been able to replicate the problem by editing the control data on the track 'Siren Synth' then zooming in and out again in the time domain.
I'm sorry if this upload fails - I'm on holiday in a rural area (hence having more time to spend on Ardour) - which is very nice but the internet is terrible. I'll keep trying.


2023-01-24 18:22

reporter   ~0027232

I haven't been able to upload the file because of internet problems. The first track in my project was an imported audio file. I deleted that track to upload my problem project and then had another look at the problem control data. The problem seems to have gone away. I recorded some audio to recreate the presence of an audio track and the problem is still absent. I'll try and get the original file to you as soon as I can, though.


2023-01-24 21:51

reporter   ~0027234

'storm bass to upload' provides the root folder of my project and some sub folders
'storm bass root files' are files to be extracted into the project root folder
'cardinal patches' is a sub folder of root
'interchange' is a sub folder of root


2023-01-24 22:04

administrator   ~0027235

I don't see the link .... am I just missing it?


2023-01-24 22:22

reporter   ~0027236

I'm having trouble with Mantis, Paul. I have sent an email to the address on the credits page. That's you isn't it?


2023-01-25 06:47

reporter   ~0027237

Apologies for being late to the party with this.

Attached is the session from which I took the screenshots in the original post.

It uses SFZ and DecentSampler instruments which obviously aren't in the attachment and which may be a problem.

However I've added a track using General MIDI Synth which shows the same behaviour. I attempted to add some some CC1 data on the 2nd 16th note of each beat. All seemed ok until I adjusted the values (not the horizontal position). I saved the session without zooming in the hope you might see the mismatch.

I notice a previous bug report 0009142 also related to MIDI automation and involving tempo changes. I do have tempo changes in this session so perhaps the 2 are connected. (250,113 bytes)


2023-01-25 11:09

reporter   ~0027239

Re: tempo changes. My project also has at least one tempo change in it.


2023-02-07 04:32

administrator   ~0027306

Thanks to Windsurfer152, this issue is now (mostly) fixed. Certainly the most significant breakage is now fixed, but there were a couple of other details along the way that I noticed that need careful attention and probably tweaks to change the behavior.


2023-02-07 18:51

reporter   ~0027309

Many thanks Paul. It's really nothing to do with me; I just reported the bug. Anyway I'll download a nightly build and test.


2023-02-08 09:39

reporter   ~0027324

Thanks Paul. I am having a much better experience writing control data to my tracks now.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 New Issue
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-20-37.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-22-51.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-23-14.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-23-47.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-24-23.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-24-53.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-25-29.png
2023-01-07 10:34 Windsurfer152 File Added: Screenshot_2023-01-07_08-26-22.png
2023-01-14 21:13 benald Note Added: 0027185
2023-01-14 21:13 benald File Added: ardour bug 2023-01-14 200143.png
2023-01-20 16:18 paul Assigned To => paul
2023-01-20 16:18 paul Status new => assigned
2023-01-24 17:37 paul Note Added: 0027227
2023-01-24 17:41 paul Note Added: 0027228
2023-01-24 18:07 benald Note Added: 0027231
2023-01-24 18:22 benald Note Added: 0027232
2023-01-24 21:51 benald Note Added: 0027234
2023-01-24 22:04 paul Note Added: 0027235
2023-01-24 22:22 benald Note Added: 0027236
2023-01-25 06:47 Windsurfer152 Note Added: 0027237
2023-01-25 06:47 Windsurfer152 File Added:
2023-01-25 11:09 benald Note Added: 0027239
2023-02-07 04:32 paul Note Added: 0027306
2023-02-07 18:51 Windsurfer152 Note Added: 0027309
2023-02-08 09:39 benald Note Added: 0027324