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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0007800ardourfeaturespublic2020-04-05 22:18
Reporterjohne53 Assigned To 
Status assignedResolutionopen 
PlatformWindows 10OSWindowsOS Version10
Product Version5.X git (version in description) 
Summary0007800: Plugin tags seem (extremely) temporary
DescriptionI discovered this in Mixbus git (26-Aug-2019) but I'm assuming it'll affect Ardour too.
Steps To ReproduceFrom the mixer window, open the Plugin Manager window, select a couple of plugins, give each of them a tag and then close the window. Right-click in the plugin area and select New Plugin->By Tags. Notice that your newly created tags don't show up (they only show up if you close Ardour/Mixbus and re-start).

Now do the same thing again (select two different plugins and give them different tags). The same thing happens (you need to shut down and re-start for the new tags to appear) - BUT - look closely and you'll see that your previous tags have disappeared.!

According 'PluginManager::save_tags()' to this seems to be deliberate. When saving tags it deliberately only saves newly created ones. Any you created earlier seem to get intentionally forgotten. Does this make sense to anyone? It seems a bit bizarre to me...
TagsNo tags attached.



2019-08-27 10:31

administrator   ~0020759

The missing "By Tags" menu update is fixed in 6.0-pre0-2271-g5a7659fbdb

As for volatility of the tags.. I'm tempted to change this for Ardour. I'm unclear what the intention for Mixbus is.
"/* user file should contain only plugins that are (a) newly user-tagged or (b) previously unknown */" seems a bit strict

I think "s/newly//" makes more sense.


2019-08-27 11:44

administrator   ~0020760

Should be fixed in Ardour 6.0-pre0-2273-g79ac8215e9


2019-08-27 11:53

reporter   ~0020761

Thanks Robin, I'll re-build and test later today. I've also asked Ben to chime in regarding why the older tags are currently getting forgotten - it sounds like one of those things which 'seemed like a good idea at the time...' :-)

BTW - what should happen if a user needs to re-scan for new plugins? Does there need to be an option to either retain or discard his pre-existing tags?


2019-08-27 12:22

administrator   ~0020762

I think there should not be an option to reset tags on scan. -- Updated plugins should always retain any user-tags.
It would only be applicable to VST. All other plugin formats are always implicitly discovered.
Furthermore, Ardour ignores updated VST plugins (treats them as not installed) until they're explicitly re-scanned and verified to work. So user-tags have to be retained for plugins that are temporarily n/a.
VST categories are notoriously inconsistent and useless, so we should always prefer to use factory-file or user-tags over plugin-provided meta-data.

If a plugin update changes a given plugin significantly and the tags are no longer applicable, that will likely break existing sessions as well. Tags will be the least of the issues.

Maybe I'm missing something..
As a user, under which condition would you opt to "delete pre-existing tags" when scanning VSTs if that option was available?


2019-08-27 14:21

reporter   ~0020763

I just rebuilt from Ardour git and the newly added tags are now showing up straight away (i.e. without needing to re-start Ardour).

BTW - I can't think of many situations where a 'discard' function would be useful in normal operation. Probably would only be needed if some corruption had occurred somehow (i.e. the user just needed to abandon his tag list and start again for some reason).


2019-08-28 13:06

reporter   ~0020765

This seems much better this morning. My only comment would be that once you create a tag, it now always shows up in the tag list - even if you later uninstall the relevant plugin (or to put it another way... tags always appear in the tag list, even if a particular tag has zero entries).


2019-08-28 13:21

administrator   ~0020766

Nice find. The same is true if you hide plugin, It would not be too hard to fix.

However I think we should remove those context-meuns. "By creator", "By Tags" are huge, slow scrollable lists. It's not very ergonomic to look for plugins that way
The new plugin-manager is a lot more streamlined.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-08-27 06:52 johne53 New Issue
2019-08-27 10:31 x42 Note Added: 0020759
2019-08-27 11:44 x42 Assigned To => x42
2019-08-27 11:44 x42 Status new => feedback
2019-08-27 11:44 x42 Note Added: 0020760
2019-08-27 11:53 johne53 Note Added: 0020761
2019-08-27 11:53 johne53 Status feedback => assigned
2019-08-27 12:22 x42 Status assigned => feedback
2019-08-27 12:22 x42 Note Added: 0020762
2019-08-27 14:21 johne53 Note Added: 0020763
2019-08-27 14:21 johne53 Status feedback => assigned
2019-08-28 13:06 johne53 Note Added: 0020765
2019-08-28 13:21 x42 Note Added: 0020766
2020-04-05 22:18 x42 Assigned To x42 =>