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I tried this twice with your session and cannot reproduce it.. That it only happens "occasionally" is a a bummer. What Audio/MIDI System do you use? CoreAudio on macOS? What buffersize? Is this perhaps correlated to dropout (xrun) happening when you rename ports? Is there a message in the Log window when it happens? |
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After the steps I outlined, this is what part of the XML looks like: Ardour (8,12) - Track and Bus Routes Not Saved - Image 1.png (240,832 bytes) |
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Oh, sorry, I didn't see your comment... Let me type-up a response... |
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"I tried this twice with your session and cannot reproduce it.. " -Did you test with a macOS-build of 8.12? I am using CoreAudio, yes. Input/Output Device is a "Aggregate Device" I setup via Audio MIDI Setup, connected to: • Audinst HUD-mini (--> Stereo Output) • Roland DUO-CAPTURE EX (--> Stereo Input) Buffer Size is pretty much always set to 1024 samples. As for the log, when I initially open the project I get: "2025-07-30T17:13:45 [INFO]: Lua: Error: ...er/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/scripts/Crossfade(A8).lua:1: unexpected symbol near '<\203>' Script '/Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/scripts/Crossfade(A8).lua' has no valid descriptor. 2025-07-30T17:14:02 [INFO]: Scanning folders for bundled LV2s: /Applications/Ardour 8.12.app/Contents/lib/LV2 2025-07-30T17:14:02 [WARNING]: VST3</Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3/Bettermaker Bus Compressor DSP.vst3>: Invalid VST3 Module Path: '' 2025-07-30T17:14:03 [WARNING]: Video-monitor 'xjadeo' was not found. Please install http://xjadeo.sf.net/ (a custom path to xjadeo can be specified by setting the XJREMOTE environment variable. It should point to an application compatible with xjadeo's remote-control interface 'xjremote'). see also http://manual.ardour.org/video-timeline/setup/ 2025-07-30T17:14:03 [INFO]: harvid version: 901 2025-07-30T17:14:04 [INFO]: Loading menus from /Applications/Ardour 8.12.app/Contents/Resources/ardour.menus 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [INFO]: session-dir and session-name mismatch. Please use 'Menu > Session > Rename' in the future to rename sessions. 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [ERROR]: cannot open directory /Users/User/Desktop/People/Family/Joe Lookinland/Audacity - Joe/The Gray Kingdom - (Audacity)/TGK Songs (No such file or directory) cannot open directory Song-Groups/TGK S (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C Segmented Songs/TGK S (No such file or directory) ..... (cutting out most of these here to save space) cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/V4 (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/V8 (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/Others (No such file or directory) Butler read ahead failure on dstream auditioner 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [ERROR]: Butler read ahead failure on dstream Vocal Track 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [ERROR]: Butler read ahead failure on dstream Vocal Track 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [INFO]: Loading user ui scripts file /Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/ui_scripts 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [INFO]: Loading plugin order file /Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/plugin_metadata/plugin_order 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [INFO]: Loading history from /Users/User/Desktop/I - V (The Sun Wakes Us) TO SHARE/I - V (The Sun Wakes Us) TO SHARE.history 2025-07-30T17:14:05 [INFO]: Could not reconstitute StatefulDiffCommand from XMLNode. object type = N6ARDOUR11AudioRegionE id = 1519416" ... And then after I follow Steps 1-9, I get this, which is clearly showing the routing/connection errors: "2025-07-30T17:16:31 [INFO]: Lua: Error: ...er/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/scripts/Crossfade(A8).lua:1: unexpected symbol near '<\203>' Script '/Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/scripts/Crossfade(A8).lua' has no valid descriptor. 2025-07-30T17:16:47 [INFO]: Scanning folders for bundled LV2s: /Applications/Ardour 8.12.app/Contents/lib/LV2 2025-07-30T17:16:48 [WARNING]: VST3</Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST3/Bettermaker Bus Compressor DSP.vst3>: Invalid VST3 Module Path: '' 2025-07-30T17:16:48 [WARNING]: Video-monitor 'xjadeo' was not found. Please install http://xjadeo.sf.net/ (a custom path to xjadeo can be specified by setting the XJREMOTE environment variable. It should point to an application compatible with xjadeo's remote-control interface 'xjremote'). see also http://manual.ardour.org/video-timeline/setup/ 2025-07-30T17:16:48 [INFO]: harvid version: 901 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [INFO]: Loading menus from /Applications/Ardour 8.12.app/Contents/Resources/ardour.menus 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [INFO]: session-dir and session-name mismatch. Please use 'Menu > Session > Rename' in the future to rename sessions. 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: cannot open directory /Users/User/Desktop/People/Family/Joe Lookinland/Audacity - Joe/The Gray Kingdom - (Audacity)/TGK Songs (No such file or directory) cannot open directory Song-Groups/TGK S (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C Segmented Songs/TGK S (No such file or directory) ..... cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/V4 (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/V8 (No such file or directory) cannot open directory SG C SS 5 - "The sun wakes us."/TSWU - Vocals/Others (No such file or directory) ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VT Bus L/audio_out 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VT Bus R/audio_out 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VT Bus L/audio_out 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VT Bus R/audio_out 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_in 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VT Bus L/audio_in 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Destination port: (ardour:VT Bus R/audio_in 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_out 1) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: ardour::connect: Invalid Source port: (ardour:VOCAL BUS/audio_out 2) 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [INFO]: Loading user ui scripts file /Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/ui_scripts 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [ERROR]: Butler read ahead failure on dstream auditioner 2025-07-30T17:16:50 [INFO]: Loading plugin order file /Users/User/Library/Preferences/Ardour8/plugin_metadata/plugin_order 2025-07-30T17:16:51 [INFO]: Loading history from /Users/User/Desktop/I - V (The Sun Wakes Us) TO SHARE/I - V (The Sun Wakes Us) TO SHARE.history 2025-07-30T17:16:51 [INFO]: Could not reconstitute StatefulDiffCommand from XMLNode. object type = N6ARDOUR11AudioRegionE id = 1519416" Screen Shot 2025-07-30 at 5.10.31 PM.png (160,765 bytes) Screen Shot 2025-07-30 at 5.08.23 PM.png (85,079 bytes) |
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"Is there a message in the Log window when it happens?" -So no. No *new* messages or errors appear in the Log window when I change the names of the buses in the DAW. I only get those new errors in the 2ND Log when I save, quit, and restart Ardour. |
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This is all remarkably consistent for me... Today I tested this bug with a FRESH project, and the issue remains. In fact, it was worse: --> ALL of the tracks/buses I renamed failed to apply universally across the XML. --> Thus any that weren't connected directly to the master had their links broken. I also noticed this: I keep seeing this suspicious ‘doubling’ of inputs/outputs on certain buses/tracks. Could this have anything to do (or be related) with what’s going on? |
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Now, after hours of testing I can confirm that… THIS PROBLEM EXISTS/PERSISTS: 1. Using Ardour 8.12 on my VM of *Ubuntu Studio* (24.04.2 LTS (-see the screenshot). 2. On my macOS Monterey (non-VM) machine running Ardour 8.12, AND the Pre-release of Ardour v9. 3. On a separate, 15” 2011 MacBook Pro using Ardour 8.12, AND the Pre-release of Ardour v9. 4. Using the Pre-release of Ardour v9 on my main Mojave desktop. 5. After giving Ardour (any version) explicit “Full Disk” and “Accessibility” access via System Preferences. 6. After clearing Session Properties -> Locations of any old source locations. 7. On older projects AS WELL AS *brand-new, 100% freshly-constructed* projects. 8. Even when the I/O configuration is changed to use completely different devices. 9. No matter how many times I run this experiment (e.g. Steps 1-9), or variations of my previous steps, even variations that differ significantly or completely. 10. Whether or not I have a fresh install of the Ardour v9 pre-release recycle my Ardour 8.12 preferences/configuration-settings. … So I really shouldn’t have written “sometimes” in the title because this is the most universally-consistent bug I’ve ever encountered. If you (Robin) are really unable to reproduce this, then I don’t know what’s going on… I am really at a loss as to what to check next… Something that all my setups share is the fact that they’re being run using macOS (Mojave and Monterey in this case). I was not expecting Ubuntu Studio to exhibit the same problem. -BUT, it’s still just a VM who’s host is ultimately Mojave. … I suppose next I will try to test this on a non-VM of some GNU/Linux OS and continue this struggle… -J |
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So after even more testing... Literally every single OS and hardware I try yields the same bug: -Mojave --> X -Monterey --> X -Ubuntu Studio (VM) --> X -Lubuntu (non-VM, but Mac Pro hardware) --> X (-See latest pictures below.) -Ubuntu (non-VM, *non-Mac hardware*(!)) --> X (-See latest picture.) -Different I/O configurations and devices. -Ardour 8.12 OR the pre-release of v9. ... This is WILD to me. If this bug is literally within Ardour itself (which appears more and more likely to me...), how could anyone not have noticed this yet??? O___o … Updated steps I’ve been using to get these results: 1. Open Ardour 8.12 and create a new session (e.g. “ROUTING TEST SESSION 1”)… 2. -Set to 44.1kHz sample-rate. 3. Create 2 stereo tracks, 2 mono buses, and one stereo bus. 4. Rename them to and organize them like so: Audio Track 1 Bus L Bus R Audio Track 2 MAIN BUS 5. Disconnect any and all from going to the Master Bus. 6. Route the left-output of “Audio Track 1” to the input of “Bus L”. 7. Route the right-output of “Audio Track 1” to the input of “Bus R”. 8. Route the stereo outputs of “Bus L”, “Bus R”, and “Audio Track 2” to the input of “MAIN BUS”. 9. Route the output of “MAIN BUS” to the input of the Master Bus. 10. Save the session. 11. Quit Ardour. 12. Reopen the session (using 8.12 of course). 13. Observe that all the routing is (likely) still fine and good. 14. Rename ALL of the 5 tracks/buses you created to whatever you want. 15. Save the session. 16. Quit Ardour. 17. Reopen the session. 18. —> All links are now gone (-except for that final bus that connected directly to the Master). —> And there will be log errors about how certain connections don’t exist. |
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Should be fixed since 9.0-pre0-1468-g96431aa0d6 Please test. |
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Unfortunately nope... the problem is still precisely the same. : / But thank you for your efforts so far. Is there a tiny chance your git "commit" didn't actually commit/apply to the v9 1468/1469 builds somehow??? I followed my last steps (1-18) exactly as I described them. I did this x4 times on my Mojave Mac Pro, and once on my non-mac ASUS laptop running Ubuntu: --> Everything still disconnects (except whatever's connected to the Master Bus). And I was testing using the *demo version* of: "Ardour 9.0.pre0.1469 "Music for Civic Recovery Centre" (rev 9.0-pre0-1469-ga1fdac58e6) Intel 64-bit - debug" -On both of my computers for these tests, FYI. -J |
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> If this bug is literally within Ardour itself (which appears more and more likely to me...), how could anyone not have noticed this yet??? O___o Because nobody renames tracks and busses simultaneously after creating them. Also because we discourage direct connection to busses. One SHOULD ALWAYS use sends. At least with that description I can now partly reproduce the bug. I was not able to with your original session, and here only the connection from Audio Track 1 to Bus L/R are lost on re-load. all others remain. |
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In understand why this happen on occasion. This happens a port connection is only saved using a non-relative name. |
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When saving a session, we only save relative names without engine prefix. Also initial connection (after creating a session) used those internally. only after reloading a session internal connections also used an absolute port name. |
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Really fixed now in 9.0-pre0-1470-g38be8c2746 Please test |
- Anonymous
