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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0005100ardourfeaturespublic2022-11-02 11:00
Reportercolinf Assigned Tox42  
PrioritynormalSeveritymajorReproducibilityhave not tried
Status feedbackResolutionopen 
Target Version3.X 
Summary0005100: MIDI regions are always transparent
DescriptionWhen two or more MIDI regions overlap, notes from all overlapping regions play, regardless of the opacity of the upper regions.

I think that:
 (a) the opacity of MIDI regions should be choosable
 (b) they should be opaque by default

This would make them behave just like audio regions, which I think would be much less confusing.
TagsNo tags attached.

Relationships

related to 0005579 resolvedx42 Disable "Opaque" option in MIDI regions context menu 
related to 0009063 closed Bug (feature??): Recorded MIDI layers are not played together 

Activities

paul

2012-10-17 22:26

administrator   ~0014081

this is a very deep problem.

colinf

2013-01-22 11:58

updater   ~0014553

I know this is unlikely to be implemented before 3.0.

However, I'd request that for the moment, MIDI regions be explicitly marked as transparent (and maybe not allowed to be made opaque).

That way, if some future version of A3 does allow opaque MIDI regions, sessions containing overlapping MIDI regions will continue to sound the same when loaded.

colinf

2019-03-20 23:14

updater   ~0020615

This still bugs me, six years later...

inFlowiaLab

2020-05-31 18:17

reporter   ~0024326

The problem is still relevant. Without its solution, working with MIDI takes is very unproductive. You have to mute every take except for the active one. This is slow, and it is completely different from recording takes of ordinary non-MIDI sound.

paul

2020-05-31 18:45

administrator   ~0024327

I wonder why I said this was so deep.

paul

2020-05-31 18:52

administrator   ~0024328

Oh, I see why.

The earliest/leftmost boundary of a currently-topmost MIDI region has to act as an "all notes off" for every note currently on.

This is trivial if every region completely covers all the ones below it. But if they are "staggered", then this becomes quite challenging. There is also the question of what happens to notes in a lower region that span the entire length of the upper region.

so yeah, inFlowiaLab, I understand why this is tricky for your workflow. But its quite hard to solve for the general case, and when we don't do that, people will run into those scenarios very often. In your case, since you appear to be completely "covering" one take with another, I would just delete the existing region (it isn't deleted from the session or disk) or switch to a new playlist.

inFlowiaLab

2020-05-31 19:20

reporter   ~0024329

> "There is also the question of what happens to notes in a lower region that span the entire length of the upper region."

It should sound until the upper region begins. Then she must shut up forever.

> "In your case, since you appear to be completely "covering" one take with another, I would just delete the existing region (it isn't deleted from the session or disk) or switch to a new playlist."

But I do not want to delete the recorded duplicates until I decided which one suits me. I record several takes, listen to them several times, choose the best one and leave it. And while I choose with MIDI clips, I have to drown out all the duplicates except one, listen to it, then drown it out, turn on another, listen to it, drown it out to turn on another and so on. With AUDIO thoughts, everything is simpler - I listen to the upper double, then I select another and raise it up - and it already sounds, I do not need to drown out all the doubles. Just pick the one you want and go up.

I'm not sure if using playlists to record takes is a good idea. Is there really a way to record duplicates in a loop, automatically placing each in its own separate playlist, and then quickly switch between playlists when choosing the best take? (As fast as this can be done with layers of AUDIO clips.)

colinf

2022-09-09 22:51

updater   ~0026573

Looks like this is now implemented in edd78000 (& preceding), though I haven't tried it yet...

x42

2022-09-11 00:01

administrator   ~0026574

As of Ardour 7.0-pre0-3455-g38c5ae4237 layered obscured MIDI regions is now fully implemented.

At the start of an opaque region above a lower region, pitch-bend and CCs values that were modified by a lower regions are either reset or restored to the the prior state (if available).
The main motivation here is to provide an easy way to loop-record and comp with consistency.

Please test.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2012-09-10 15:33 colinf New Issue
2012-09-15 12:14 cth103 cost => 0.00
2012-09-15 12:14 cth103 Target Version => 3.0
2012-10-17 22:26 paul Note Added: 0014081
2012-10-18 15:42 paul Target Version 3.0 => 3.X
2012-10-24 20:38 paul Severity minor => major
2013-01-22 11:58 colinf Note Added: 0014553
2013-07-12 10:14 colinf Relationship added related to 0005579
2019-03-20 23:14 colinf Note Added: 0020615
2020-05-31 18:17 inFlowiaLab Note Added: 0024326
2020-05-31 18:45 paul Note Added: 0024327
2020-05-31 18:52 paul Note Added: 0024328
2020-05-31 19:20 inFlowiaLab Note Added: 0024329
2022-09-09 22:51 colinf Note Added: 0026573
2022-09-11 00:01 x42 Note Added: 0026574
2022-09-11 00:01 x42 Assigned To => x42
2022-09-11 00:01 x42 Status new => feedback
2022-11-02 11:00 colinf Relationship added related to 0009063