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ID Category Severity Reproducibility Date Submitted Last Update
0002627 [ardour] features feature have not tried 2009-04-09 01:53 2010-09-29 05:00
Reporter tgoose View Status public  
Assigned To
Priority normal Resolution open  
Status new   Product Version 2.8
Summary 0002627: Request: DDP Support
Description With DDP support in Ardour I could avoid buying an expensive add-on to Pyramix or Sonic PMCD.

Support for DDP versions 1 AND 2 would be preferable, as well as the ability to create a checksum for the image file.
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Sponsor -  Users sponsoring this issue
Sponsors List Total Sponsorship = US$ 20

2009-04-09 01:54: tgoose (US$ 20)

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-  Notes
(0006023)
anrug (reporter)
2009-05-21 04:39

May I ask a couple of questions about that:

* Why do you want DDP 1.00? I would assume, that it's perfectly fine to offer DDP 2.00 export only, being the up-to-date and most complete format. Or have you heard of any manufacturer which only accepts 1.00/1.01?

* The checksum is not part of the DDP format. Can you specify, how you would want the checksum to be added? (Sorry, I have no access to Pyramix and the Sonic products at the moment.)

* Most people nowadays deliver DDP on DVD-R or via FTP. I assume you don't expect export to tape any more?

* How important is it, to be able to listen to the DDP master (Pyramix, the new Sonic products, and Sequoia achive this by importing DDP masters)?

* How important is it, to be able to burn a reference CD straight from the DDP master (none of the above programs offer that, but GearWorks does it iirc).
(0006024)
tgoose (reporter)
2009-05-21 07:38

* DDP 1.00 or 1.01 would be purely "just in case." I don't remember ever having a problem with supplying DDP 2.0 so for my uses I'd probably be fine with just that.

* I'm also without access to any software currently, I'm afraid. If anybody else has access to any of: Pyramix, SADiE or Sequoia then that would be handy—they're the only three I'm aware of that offer checksums (maybe SoundBlade does too but I don't know). I can't remember what form the checksum takes but it's added as an extra file to the DDP folder and I believe it protects only the image.

* Once, about a year ago, a company I worked for was asked to deliver one DDP on Exabyte. So I think that's an option I could do without!

* For the last two points, I would certainly like to be able to do at least one of those two. The latter is preferable since it kills two birds with one stone if I can create a ref and verify the master simultaneously but loadback into Ardour itself would be almost as good. I seem to remember that Pyramix does offer burning direct from DDP via the DiscWrite software (when the DDP option is added, that is).
(0006070)
anrug (reporter)
2009-06-09 19:14

OK, tgoose, DDP export will not make it into 2.x, there basically is a feature freeze. I've prepared an experimental patch for 2.8 that adds DDP export to the normal export dialog, it's not elegant, because it relies on the user specifying the correct format for the audio file, but it works (no CD text though, that's way more complicated to implement, than anything else regarding DDP). I will further test it and maybe upload it somewhere at some point.

In 3.0 there may very well be a dedicated CD export dialog, chances are not too bad that I can help with code for DDP export.

For burning CDs straight from DDP I would suggest creating a cue file along with the other DDP files, this will allow ref CD copies from exactly the same audio file, that's part of the DDP. For proof listening to DDP one could use a media player that supports cue sheets or I'd have to look into implementing a "DDP import" in Ardour - ideally without having to copy the audio (which has always bothered my with Pyramix and Sequoia).
(0009034)
rooker (reporter)
2010-09-12 14:20

Are there any legal problems with DDP-code licensed under GPL?
(0009191)
anrug (reporter)
2010-09-29 05:00
edited on: 2010-09-29 05:01

I whish I could answer that question. The license terms can be found at http://www.dcainc.com/support/documentation/docs/DDPLA1x2x.pdf [^]

It doesn't sound especially restrictive, but I think DCA Inc. expects their specification to only be used in "products", under which they seem to invision closed source compiled software.

I have had email contact with DCA, asking if it is OK to release an open source library for creating DDPs of Audio CDs--I have code in C and Python, that I certainly wouldn't mind sharing). They were concerned about the code being used by their competitors--which would be companies offering glass mastering software for CD/DVD duplication plants--and about the code not adhering to the spec, they wanted the right to "approve" the code. Clearly they had not much of a clue about open source in general. And strangely enough, I think that those concerns are not ensured by their license terms.

So for me this is a somewhat weired situation and I have not released any code yet. But maybe one would be able to convince them.

Another question is of course if one needs their permission at all. I'm not familiar with the US laws, but for people who haven't signed the agreement and have done clean room reverse engineering on the DDP format it might probably be OK to release code under the GPL. Note that in the two projects I know of which have DDP spec related code (dvd2tape and XLD) the source code shows that the authors had probably access to the spec.


- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2009-04-09 01:53 tgoose New Issue
2009-04-09 01:54 tgoose Sponsorship Added tgoose: US$ 20
2009-04-09 01:54 tgoose Sponsorship Total 0 => 20
2009-04-09 01:54 tgoose Issue Monitored: tgoose
2009-05-21 04:39 anrug Note Added: 0006023
2009-05-21 07:38 tgoose Note Added: 0006024
2009-06-09 19:14 anrug Note Added: 0006070
2010-09-12 14:20 rooker Note Added: 0009034
2010-09-12 18:01 cth103 cost => 0.00
2010-09-12 18:01 cth103 Target Version => 3.X
2010-09-29 05:00 anrug Note Added: 0009191
2010-09-29 05:01 anrug Note Edited: 0009191


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